When you start with $120,000 in credit card debt, how are you going to turn that around? Joe and Chris are new business partners and my new coaching clients in the Denver market, and the amount of success they’ve had in the short time we’ve all been working together has just been incredible. But it didn’t start out that easy for them.

Joe McCall and I have said for years, “Show me a wholesaler that has a great CRM, and we’ll show you a broke one”. Chris and Joe had a great system in place, and the amount of deals that Joe did from referrals alone is just incredible. But they were ready to take it to the next level.

If you’ve built a wonderful system bringing in all of the leads, but no one’s on the phone, then your problem isn’t the system. One of the ways we’ve been able to help Chris and Joe was to analyze where their system was breaking down so they could figure out how to fix it.

After some amazing six figure months, Chris has 3 tips for how you can achieve the same kind of breakthrough. Success is definitely out there, but the struggle to get there is real.

Chris and Joe have tightened up their system and are getting ready to scale big. They’re looking for an acquisition person to join their team. If you want to work remotely and you’re not scared of making offers and being on the phone, connect with Chris and Joe.

Watch the Episode:

What’s Inside:

  • Your cash buyers become your sellers.
  • Why you want to move from working in the business to working on the business.
  • How your “why” can push you towards success.
  • Chris’s advice for how to become the world-class investor that you want to be.

Gavin: Hey, guys, how are you doing? This is Gavin Timms, REI Network. I have two awesome guests. Just before we get started here, I just want to give you a little give away. If you go to REINetwork.com/downloads, REINetwork.com/downloads, I’ve got my lead sheet, my contract and some of the cool stuff for you to go and check it out. You won’t know what the third thing is until you go there. Also, a new app that we’re gonna be testing. I’m training VAs on right now is GoKnock.com/Gavin, GoKnock.com/Gavin. Check it out. It’s a virtual drive for dollars app that you’ll got your team can do from the Philippines and actually skip trace then and there and then get cold calling, texting straight away. So check that out. 

Gavin: Also right now, that’s out the way. Let me introduce to my clients. They’re awesome. Out of Denver, Colorado, Chris White and Joe Mastreona. About 10 runs at it and still got it wrong. But anyway, guys, how are we doing?

Gavin: I appreciate you both getting on and sharing your story. I want to go back to kind of how, you know, what you guys have been doing, investment world and kind of how you met and kind of go from that. So let’s start with Joe. Let’s start with you. I know you’re a seasoned veteran in the business. So how did you get in? We’ve been doing kind of deals. And tell us a little bit about you. Sure. 

Joe: So I’ve been a full time investor in the Denver market, mainly for 13 to 14 years. Gavin, I I’ve done pretty much everything under the sun in terms of real estate, from fix and flips to wholesaling. Doing a lot of wholesaling. Doing new builds, rentals, AirBnBs. We’ve done that over the course of the 13 or 14 years. And like I said, I’ve been doing it full time. 

Gavin: Yeah, it’s amazing. OK, cool. And then I’ll come to you. I’ve got some good questions for you, Chris. What about you? I know you’re newer, I would say, to the investing world. Couple of two or three years. 

Chris: Yeah. Hit my two year mark this November. It’ll be two years. 

Gavin: Nice. And you were in Kansas before? 

Chris: Started my career last year investing virtually into Kansas. Kansas City while living in Denver. And I was actually doing some traveling as well. 

Gavin: And how did you guys link up? How did you become business partners? 

Chris: Yeah, we actually met at another networking group we were in together. And, you know, I was doing a lot of traveling to Kansas City and I was getting ready to have a baby. And I kind of felt like I needed to come back to Denver and kind of put my roots down as an investor. And was just talked to Joe randomly and he kind of floated, hey, what do you think about maybe teaming up? So that’s what we did coming into 2020 was we decided to team up. 

Gavin: Yeah, I like that. You know, I have a lot of, you know, business partners as well doing the same things. I always believe that two minds is better than one. I mean, it’s a lonely world. It’s hard. Investing business is hard. And I think having someone to go and have a conversation with them and bash ideas off to drive the business forward is key. So, you know, that’s good. So you guys met, start coming together. I know we’ve been working together now for maybe three months. It’s gotta be three.

Gavin: You guys have been doing, you know, some stuff together, you know, some marketing. And we started to work together. I know you’re heavy into the cold calling. And I want to come on to kind of how things evolve for those of you. But before I do that, I do want to jump back over to Joe real quick. And what’s unique that I want to pull from you, Joe. I’ve always thought this after meeting you is that the amount of deals that you’ve done from referrals is quite incredible. When we met, you weren’t actually doing any mark, you know, which is pretty amazing. So tell us a little bit about that. 

Joe: Yeah. So when I started 2006, 2007, was a different investing world? Facebook wasn’t around. And, you know, barely people had websites at that time. And really at that particular time in 2006, six, seven and eight pounds when the market was crashing. And so, you know, a lot of the leads that I got were from, you know, REOs. There was a ton of REOs and you know, those types. But really, how you network, you get it to why I mentioned Facebook is it’s a great way to network now. But there was no such thing. You actually went to networking events. And I would just go to all of them because I was new. So I was trying to find buyers, you know, just trying to learn things. And so, yeah, I just would network like crazy there. I’d built up a pretty big following in the list over, you know, 13, 14 years of buyers. 

Joe: And so I will get the reputation, I guess, of being able to move properties and do it at a consistent level. And so I’ve definitely done some direct mail marketing and things but over the last couple of years I stopped doing that and I was just doing it strictly off networking. So I have lots of agents that will just bring me pocket listings that I have relationships cause they just they trust me and they know that I get the deal done. The other ways were just for my buyers. They would either be fix and Flipper’s that had too many deals or was a deal that they got that they didn’t like. And they’re like, hey, you wanna help me with this? Absolutely. Plus you’re alone. Just give you an idea. I did 24, 25 deals with no marketing budget or no marketing And I’m in Denver. 

Gavin: In a tough market. Right. I mean, the reason I want you to talk on this is because it goes exactly along a line with what I believe in as well. I mean, I literally named the company REI Network because I believe in network and everything is exactly that. And the fact that you’ve built something of relationships to be getting 24 referrals of people bringing you deals, and it’s all based off relationships. That’s what it is. And doing a good job and doing what you say you’re going to do. And if there’s another big little gold nugget that you said as well in that, is that your cash buyers become your sellers. So everyone needs to know entitled I down that your cash buys become the sellers. 

Gavin: I mean, an absentee owner list that a lot of people pull in the industry, is the fact that one point they bought this property and now they are selling it. Oh, something’s gone wrong. So it is just a vicious cycle that your buyers become your sellers. And that’s what you even encouraged has taken too many rehabs. The money dries up. They need to sell this deal to complete another. All these scenarios just built off relationships. So I think that’s really a key thing just to point out that. So good job on that. 24 deals with networking is fantastic. 

Gavin:  So for you, Chris, obviously the new whip on the block, more into the systems and the technology. Yeah, I mean, you love systems. You really do. And you’re great at it. I mean, I was impressed when we started working together. I mean, you had things dialed in and you kind of added most of the answers. When I would be like, well have you done this? You had it built out through, you know, emails and you’d kind of built your own CRM. I mean, you’re pretty much did, right? 

Chris: Yeah, I took one out of the box and then tweaked it, manipulated it to do what I believe in my head included to do so. I could also be one of my biggest hurdles as being too systems oriented, process oriented, where I can’t get out of my own way, which is obviously where you help me.

Gavin: Yeah, well, I think you have to play to your strengths, right? You outsource your weaknesses and all of these things. And that’s why when we have our calls and we kind of go to the core of the business and try and figure out what the next moves are, is really important because I come in straight away and go, me and Joe said it for years, show me a wholesaler that’s got a great CRM and we’ll show you a bright one. You know, and it’s so true because like my mind goes to who’s on the phone, who’s getting contracts, right? That’s my always go is that’s where I go to because I know if that’s not being done, then I start there and think, okay, who’s on the phone? 

Gavin: No one’s on the phone. Well, we have this wonderful system bringing all these wonderful leads. But no one’s on the phone. We’re not getting contracts. Now, if you are on the phone, then we can analyze what is a lead problem. Is the leads not coming in? Don’t we have enough? Is the quality of the lead player on the list lists coming from? We start to analyze that. But that was interesting when I started to work with you guys, I it kind of was a good fit in a way, because I am very systems and processes. I am. 

Gavin: But I’m very much more about how we’re going to get a contract and we’re going to make money. You did have that built out. And I want to talk a little bit about kind of how everything I did I did an episode called And If You’ve Listened To Everything Can Change on a Dime, which was kind of built on our conversation and what happened to you guys. I’m not going to lie. It really was really impressive because, you know, sometimes, you know, when we work together and I’m there to motivate you had it all that you just needed to continue to do it and let the outcome happen. 

Gavin: So let’s talk about some numbers. Let’s talk about the struggle that everyone else is feeling. And I think by you talking about this, they’re going to get a lot from it. People that are listening. So I don’t know who wants to go. One of you. Let’s talk about that process and how everything is going right now. 

Joe:  I think, yeah, I can sort it out. And Chris, you can fill in like with the numbers and the data. So Chris and I started work together. We decided at the beginning of February. And so I was still working my deals just now, working still. So we had multiple deals that were still going through February and into March. And then COVID hit. So that was a weird time for all of us. And it really was strange that my networking source of leads dried up. I’m like middle of March to June. It started to dry up. We could see that kind of happening. People I don’t know. Some of my agents just retracted. They were afraid that. Who knows? 

Joe:  But then Chris and I said, well, you know what? Let’s just not rely solely on that. The whole thing was bring Chris in. He had some, you know, some knowledge about marketing and things like that. We’re going to couple those two together. That’s what we’ve done. But as anyone is in marketing before, it takes time. And so we just started to launch that in May, our marketing and really didn’t have anything for I mean, no deals. In May, no deals in June. Absolutely not. And, you know, and that’s around the time in June we brought you on Gavin as a coach, was just tweaking a few things for us. And with that, along with timing and it takes time. Like I said to the market, we had a pretty big explosion month from all the things we were doing in May and June and Hopton July. And we had seven contracts under contract. And I’ll let you take it from there. 

Chris: Yeah, I mean, if we’re talking about the struggle, I would say the struggle is real. I know for my story in particular, before I got in to a real estate full time last year, I had another business and in hindsight made some poor choices in who I got into business with. And long story short, I got myself into eighty thousand dollars of credit card debt, which quickly ballooned to about one hundred twenty thousand. You know, I’m the only income earner in my family. My wife’s a world class mom and does a great job with our two kids. And so a lot of ways you can maybe argue that that might have been a benefit being that much in debt, because last January of 2019, when I started full time real estate investing, I didn’t have any other choice than to overcome my fear, my lack of skill or whatever, whatever the hurdle was in front of me. 

Chris: And I just I didn’t have a choice because I woke up everyday, stressed out, freaked out, overwhelmed, and there was no one to cry to break as I’m looking at my wife in the kitchen and I’m going to work and I’ve got all this credit card debt. So, you know, I’m playing the credit card game for the last year and a half. And, you know, when Joe and I teamed up, it was because I was getting ready to have a kid, my second kid. And I was talking to a mentor and he told me, hey, your priority is to your wife and your family first. And Joe actually said this to me as well when I was sitting in a car in Kansas City trying to get a deal done, stressed out about the fact that I’d been living away from my family for going on a month. And my wife is pregnant. 

Chris: And Joe just kind of called me and said hey, man, your priorities to your wife or your kids, we gotta get you back to Denver. So come back to Denver, work with Joe. And probably the biggest stroke, one of the biggest problems I faced as an entrepreneur is patience. Like I want everything to happen now. And a lot of that’s driven by the fact that I’m a hundred thousand dollars in credit card debt. So it’s like I need this happened today. And so we were grinding from like February 1st when Joe and I met and we met you in May or I think it was and trying to get this machine turning. And as Joe just mentioned at the end of his comments was just last month topped seven deals. And we’re gonna bring in about a hundred and thirty-seven thousand, one hundred and fifty thousand of assignment fees by the end of this month. So the struggle is real. 

Gavin: Yeah, but there’s a lot I mean, your why is huge. I think in business, not just in real estate, but in any business that we do, you have to have a why, right. And you have to go to places you don’t want to go. Even you telling that story, the hairs on my arms are standing up. Because you’re not just saying it was real, you know, and people have got to go to their places. I do believe that it was a blessing because otherwise you wouldn’t be in the position that you’re in now if it weren’t as bad as it got. Right. Because she probably wouldn’t have that to date. We had a kind of a heart to heart moment. I don’t know, June probably when it was like you were off to Kansas again. If we don’t figure this out. 

Gavin: And you figured it out, I mean, you buckled down and you made it happen. And that’s what sometimes you’ve got to do. Now, that wasn’t free forever. I think you’d be you know, we’d all flat to say that you kind of would get it out. People in seven contracts, one hundred and thirty-seven thousand. So talking about, again, the actor side of everything can change on a dime and try to get you. I understand the process because I’ve been through it. I teach it. I have multiple people with the same results consistently with the same process of. Just trust in the process and it will come right? It might take a week, it might take three months or six months. I don’t know that all you can do is control what you can control. 

Gavin:  And by doing that, I mean, it was nothing better for you. I mean, and it was literally over probably seven, eight days. And this wasn’t over a month. I mean, this thing turned around from me saying, how are we doing thinking, please, have we got a contract, we’ve got seven under contract. We’re in closing for four. We’re moving the other three. And I’m like, what? Like, okay. Something clicked right side to come together now. So awesome job on that. And I think everyone is going to be inspired listening to that because there’s so many people in that position. Right. And Joe wasn’t in that position. He’s been investing and without a financial position. But doing the deals he’s done and he’s savvy is probably more comfortable. 

Gavin: Where with you, everything’s on the line. And you dug it out. And then we went from you doing that in closing. And now, you know, from a coaching level, we’ve actually and there is a dangerous position, which we talked about, because now that why is still strong. But I mean, you’ve just cracked it. I mean, it’s just everything’s just flying on all cylinders. It’s working. It’s happening. And that can be anyone in business. That can be a bad also not a bad position, but very vulnerable. If you don’t catch it, then you don’t say, how do we maintain this now? Because you get an air of, you relax, which is so natural. And we had this conversation. Because you’re not going at 100 miles an hour now. You don’t need to because it’s kind of like all that work and everything is paid off. And here we are. 

Gavin: And then we go into the scaling part of the business. Now, it’s like, okay, how do we start removing ourselves? How do we actually now start working on the business and not on the business? Not in the business. And that’s kind of where you guys are on your journey. You’ve got an acquisition guy that’s kind of part time. We’re looking, you know, for another. You’re looking for another one that’s going to be able to take this role. We have a system that can generate leads. Now, we’re very confident. I’m very confident in that, that you can pivot and we can get leads in any market. We have since gone from Denver into back into Kansas on a virtual level. Working both markets. And maybe guys, I’ve not actually check with you on this and I can put it in the show notes, but I don’t know if you want to start thinking about an email address and maybe like if someone is listening to this call that may fit an acquisition role. 

Gavin: If you’re interested and look in you know, the guys are looking for an acquisition person, someone with a good personality, a go getter and someone that can work remotely. If you’re not scared of making offers and being on the phone, I’m sure we can put something out here. I think give me something or I’ll put it in the show notes. If you want to apply for the position, then you know, they are looking. So just want to throw that out there and plug it real quick. Well, while I’m on there on the subject. And that’s kind of, you know, where we’re at, guys, you know, I think you’ve got some more inclose in a good job. 

Gavin: You know, we just had our coaching call and it was kinda like we were picking every centerpieces. It was doom and gloom. I’m not going to lie because we’re trying to, like, just rarely get in the nuts and bolts of what. And I’m like, hold on a minute. Let’s just look at what has gone well as well. Like, you have to celebrate your wins. Right. Because this business is hard enough without just pushing them aside and keep. Go, go, go. Celebrate the fact that what you have achieved and what you’ve got in closing is awesome. So it’s great. I know, Joe, you’ve got to go here in a second. So I’m trying to wrap this up. 

Gavin: But anything else, guys means what would you say? And again, if you have an email or we’ll do a link or something in the show notes of this so you don’t have to throw one out. But remember that. What would you say to people listening to this like that are struggling? I mean, what would your advice be? You’ve been in the trenches. What would you say to them? 

Joe: Yeah. Doing this 13, 14 years, you guys. Yeah. It’s the toughest thing is to same consistent. And when you’re if you are first starting, you know, it’s not consistency. It’s just getting those deals and having a month like we had there. I’ve had lots of those months. Chris experienced that for the first time. What I would say is just to stick with it. It is like this blind faith. As long as you’re doing the building blocks that Gavin has given you and it’s talking to sellers and making offers and you’re just going at it. And that’s why it’s always been it’s worked for me. I have had some consistency issues as well, but it’s always worked because I have a desire to go out there and make it happen. I’m that person. I’ll just go make deals happen when I say. 

Joe: And that’s what I would give you, the advice that just believe in your mind that you can do it. So get those deals and it will happen. And then my second piece of advice is to not let your foot off the gas when you have momentum. Right. It. Ride that wave as far as you can go. And then, you know, I might drop down and then you got to restart again, but try to ride it for a couple months at least if you can. And don’t let your foot off the pedal, because that’s it’s like Gavin said, it’s very natural human characteristic to do is this. Kick back, throw your feet on the desk and I just take it off. So those are the severalpieces of advice that I would give.

Gavin: No, that’s great. I 100 percent agree with that. Well, look, Chris, hold on. We’re going to come to you. But, Joe, I know you’ve got actually a meeting to jump off. So if you want to go, you can go when you’re ready. I appreciate you. So thank you for getting on. I think people are going to get a lot out of this. 

Joe: Definitely. Thanks for having me on. I am honored and I hope this helps people and I appreciate it. 

Gavin: Well, thanks, but I appreciate that. Thank you, Chris. So what about you? I mean, again, it is good to have the balance because Joe has been in the places that you’ve been. I’m sure that you are in it. You know, recently. So what would you say to someone? You know, the struggle just as we’ve just talked about. What would you say? Kind of. How did you get. How did you get through it? What would be the thing that they need to focus on or do that’s gonna help someone listening? 

Chris: Yeah, I would give everybody three quick things. The first thing I would say is don’t go alone. I don’t believe God wired us as human beings to go alone in any especially in business. So don’t go alone. Go with an expert, someone like Gavin. That’s really been the secret to my success is it’s not going alone. And you’re not just not alone, but having an expert in the trenches where I can send Gavin a text message yesterday, say, hey, I’m freaking out, man, I. Please aren’t coming in. Like, I don’t know what to do. I’ve got ideas, but I’m overwhelmed. I’m in chaos. Can you help me? And Gavin’s like, yeah, let’s jump on a call tomorrow morning and talk through it. And before we did this podcast, we did that. 

Chris: And now I’ve got extreme clarity. I can get off of this. My energy’s completely changed. I’m excited. I’m gonna go crush it and take over the world and never have to talk to Gavin again. We know that’s a lie. I’ll be messaging him in three days. Yeah, I’m freaking out again. You know, Gavin, I’ll say. Great, let’s get on the phone. Right. So no one don’t go alone. Go with an expert. The Amber two is and this is one to write down is always believe that you are always right where you need to be. So when you are freaking out, when you are in chaos, then you are overwhelmed. Do your best to pause. Take a breath. Close your eyes and just go. You know what? I’m right where I need to be always at all times, no matter what. 

Chris: Because the universe is conspiring to help you win. Yeah. It’s always believe that you’re always right or you need to be. Yeah. So that’s number two. And then the last thing I would say is, you know, if it doesn’t challenge you, it’s not going to change. It doesn’t challenge you. It’s not going to change you. And we all know that we’re developing a new skill set, which means we have to willingly step into the fire to be challenged. And the fire. The challenge is painful. It’s not comfortable. It can’t be overwhelming. It can be confusing. It’s going to be frustrating. Right. Which is why you don’t want to go up. You want to go with an expert, but you have to really, really, like, get some peace of mind in the battle and go, this is normal. That’s the takeaway. 

Chris: Like, you’re being challenged. You’re frustrated. You’re stressed. You’re whatever it is, the emotion is. Welcome to the club. We’ve got jackets. Right? This is normal. It doesn’t challenge you. It won’t change you. And you have to change in order to become the World-Class investor you want to be. Like, you know, this logic where you are right now to where you want to go. You have to change. That’s a 100 percent back. And if it doesn’t challenge you, you will never change. So don’t fear the challenge. Don’t push away from the challenge. Step into the challenge. And don’t go alone. So that when you’re in that challenge and you’re freaking out like I was this morning, last night, you’re good. You got someone to come alongside. So those are my three key tips. 

Gavin: I love that. I mean, you’ve just bought the energy of the day. Everything still less than what you’ve just said because that’s powerful. You know, it really is. And people need to understand the unknown is scary. 

Gavin: But if, you know, everyone would be doing it, it’s impossible. It’s new. You’re not going to know. So it is going to get difficult. And, well, let’s again, work with me or someone else or a mentor that you’ve got already, whoever you are less. I think that’s great advice. I went straight into coaching. This isn’t me buying courses and figuring out everything on my own. No, absolutely not. I come from a coaching background. Even in sports. So I understand that exactly what you mean you need like to do in business today. But I get so focused and I’m so I’m in the trenches. I can’t focus on what needs to happen in my own stuff because trying to figure everything out when I can come into a business and just from a top level and I’m not emotionally tied to my team and my visa and my acquisition, my business partner, I can easily lock in. 

Gavin: No, I mean, pretty quickly today. We analyze a couple of key things, are things going to make a huge difference that you just couldn’t see? It’s not that you can’t figure it out. You’re just so in just trying to make it happen. A couple of tweaks is going to change everything, you know. So you are super powerful. I think you bought it at the end there. So I appreciate it. And you know, good job. Good job to both of you. I know, Judge, I’m tough, but sometimes again, everyone listening. Celebrate your wins. The win is what’s going to keep you going when it gets tough and you can break winners’ down. Doesn’t need to be money. Does need to be contracts. Right. Can be my first lead. It could be my first offer. There are so many wins to celebrate in the business to try and put a positive spin. 

Gavin: Again, believe in what you’ve just said, Chris, is that you meant to be here, right? It is what it is. This is the card you doubt. And what are you going to do about it? And how are you going to handle it? Is what we need to focus on. To get us out. To move us forward and to get contracts. Money being made. And now you’re in the stage of fund stage of trying to build, you know, the business and take it and not, you know, one hundred thousand one hundred thirty-seven or whatever thousand inclosing. And how do we do that now? Monthly. And that’s why we are awesome. Well, look, Chris, anything else before we finish? 

Chris: That’s it, brother, appreciate the opportunity to connect with you and your audience. 

Gavin: It’s been awesome. I appreciate it. Great episode. And guys, if you’re interested in working with me, go to REINetwork.com/coaching. REINetwork.com/coaching. If not, no problem. You’ve also got my download. Remember REINetwork.com/downloads. So check them out. Chris, it’s been a pleasure. Appreciate your time. But I will talk to you soon. 

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